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Up Topic Algemeen / RX-8 discussie / Warm start
- By Equinox (Deelnemer) [nl] Date 27-03-2015 13:16
Hi everybody,

My car now drives great, no problems.

But when I turn it off, it wont start again. The start engine works, but the engine doesnt start. I wait for 5/10 minutes and then it starts again.

Has anyone here experienced similar symptoms? Any idea of what it could be?

This goes from a minor nuisance (having to wait 10 minutes every time I fill up the tank) to plain dangerous (when I let the engine go down in a busy road).

Any input is appreciated!
- By Michael Z (SuperForumposter) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 15:38
You most probably have the very common "hot-start" problem which many RX-8's have or had.

To find out what might be causing it more info is needed such as;

What's the mileage on your ignition?   (near or above 25,000 miles?)

What starter motor do you have?    (the serial number is on top of the starter)

Was your RX-8 flooded?        (if so your plugs are probably fouled)

Also note that the stock coils, sparkplugwires and sparkplugs unfortunately don't last very long and the starter motor is very weak from factory;

The RX8 Ignition coils are prone to fail, so it’s probably a good idea to change them.
You can also check the epoxy fill on the bottom for burn spots and /or surface flaws. It is usually smart to replace them and start fresh.
Relocating the coils to improve cooling is another possible but more difficult option that should improve life expectancy.

The stock wires have a rubber coating which cannot handle heat for a very long time before they start to crack which let's moisture in and causes interference, replacing them could be neccesary. If you have more cash to spend go for a set of silicone wires which will fix the heat influence problem.

Your sparkplugs might need replacement too on higher mileage, especially if the engine was flooded a few times which basically ruins your plugs.
Make sure you get 2 Leading (RE7C-L) and 2 Trailing (RE9B-T) spark plugs and put them in the right locations or you might cause serious engine damage!  Don't be shocked of quite high prices as the spark plugs are a special type for Rotary engines (no alternatives here).
If you make hot starts very often you might want to switch your Leading spark plugs for the RE6C-L type which Mazda introduced in 2006 to combat the hot start problems.

As for the starter engine N3H1 is an old 1,3kW starter which doesn't work very well, especially when old. N3H1-A is an upgraded starter and the number N3Z1 means you have a 1,6kW starter later introduced by Mazda.  If you have extra cash to spend you could also go for a 2,0kW upgrade.

I hope this gives you some useful information, and I wish you luck!

Also if you eventually plan on replacing your complete ignition in a while you could buy mine for a fair price as I am making an early upgrade within a few months from now. Of course all parts will be checked upon first to make sure they are 100% ok before they are sold.
- By Equinox (Deelnemer) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 15:59
It's official, I have the 'hot-start' problem!
And thanks Michael Z, that's great input

The mighty Akira is now 120.000K, and drives beautifully. Just got a new battery, but I'm a computer engineer, not a mechanical engineer, so I'm a little bit at a loss here.

I know what the components are, but I'm not capable of servicing most of them myself. And the big challenge for a foreigner, that only speaks miserable dutch, is to find the people/garage that has the knowledge and doesnt want to rip you off.

I just came back from a pre-APK, at a turkish garage in Amsterdam Noord. Nice guy, but had never seen a rotary in his life. He wants me to change the rear break pads and the wipers, before going for the real APK.

Now, back to the 'hot-start' problem. From what I've been reading (and that's a lot) a couple of things could be happening. The first thing to do is a compression test. But it's common in this forum to see that Mazda dealers are now the best guys to help here.
From my gut feeling, the start engine is weak. That's also a known fault, and I guess that's where I'm going to start.
Any ideas on how to single out/make sure that the start engine is the key to the problem?

Michael Z, what do you mean by 'ignition'? What component/parts are you refering to?
- By Michael Z (SuperForumposter) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 16:17
You're welcome Equinox.

If it runs great don't do a compression check because it will be a waste of money (besides that on rotaries the compression check is often done completely wrong, especially by people who don't know these engines. Which makes you believe the engine is dead while it is very much alive...)

First thing to check is the "code" written on top of the starter engine (which means the code is between the starter and the bottom of the car)
When underneath the car you can use a small mirror near the starter so you can see the code without taking it off, saves you time and money!

But with a mileage of 120.000 I am almost sure that the starter engine is pretty much done for, especially if it's the one that came on the car from the Madza factory.

With "ignition" I meant the parts that create the spark to make your RX-8 go. Such as the coils, sparkplugwires and sparkplugs.
Again, at this mileage it could very well be these parts as well because they should be replaced close to every 25.000 miles (which is close to 60.000 kilometer) you have double of that so it seems you need your second set of ignition parts (new coils, wires and plugs).

Important to know is; do you get a CEL (Check Engine Light) on your dash when your problem occurs?

If so then it is probably your ignition, if not then it is most likely your starter engine.
- By Equinox (Deelnemer) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 16:31
What should happen to the CEL in that case?

What is the normal behavior?
- By Michael Z (SuperForumposter) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 16:44
There should never be a CEL on your dash, if it does ever occur you need to read the code with a special device by yourself, someone else, or a garage.

If you need any help with such device (ODB reader) I can help you out as I have one myself.

So normal behavior is no CEL.
- By Equinox (Deelnemer) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 16:54
Nope, no CEL. :-)
- By Michael Z (SuperForumposter) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 17:02
Then check your starter engine first, if you have the code N3H1 on it make sure to replace it for a N3Z1 (at least).

Even if this eventually doesn't solve your problem completely it will surely help and prevent further trouble in the future.

This company can sell you a brand new upgraded starter engine for a very cheap price (non OEM though);
- By Equinox (Deelnemer) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 17:12 Edited 28-03-2015 17:14
Email sent to these guys! If they answer fast, I will have the start engine changed this week. This lack of reliability completely breaks the enjoyment of driving.

Any members here have any experience with the service at Auto-Electric?
- By Michael Z (SuperForumposter) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 17:14 Upvotes 1
Many people here have their starter engine and it works fine.
And from what I've heard the service is great and cheap, the starter engine should cost about 160 euro (and it's about 30 euro to replace the starter engine for you if I'm right)
- By Olof (Rotary SuperSpammer) [nl] Date 28-03-2015 22:20
- By Equinox (Deelnemer) [nl] Date 31-03-2015 21:35
Changed the start engine at AutoElectric, I could start the car several times, hot, warm and cold.
So far, so good!

Tomorrow is APK day, I'll keep you posted.

In any case, the RX8 runs again like a torpedo, and I'm no longer afraid of red lights. :-)
- By Michael Z (SuperForumposter) [nl] Date 03-04-2015 19:46
Glad to hear it helped Equinox.

Just a little advise on starting; try to limit the amount of repeated starts, allowing the car to warm up properly first before turning it off has many great benefits regarding engine life etc. Also the risk off flooding will be greatly reduced!

Happy rotoring!
Up Topic Algemeen / RX-8 discussie / Warm start

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